Patrolling 3/20/07

[shortdog]

Patrolling thats a big thing. Basically its just moving from one position to another. humping, there are several formations you can use, depending on the terain. The file, which is every body in one line, the point man is always a good distance ahead of the main body. The navigator is behind him, making sure he goes the right way. The element leader is near the center. The rear guard is in back, usually with a heavy weapon, he almost walks backwards the whole time. Its hard if he is the only one, because if there is contact to the front, he needs to get to the action fast and alive. but you can play around with positions of SAWs and grenadires.
The V formation is just what it sounds like, pointman in the center, with every one fanned out behind. SAW gunners would be near the back. A variation is the double V, or flying V, it is 2 Vs one infront of the other, with the element commander dead center, not in a V. V formations are used when you expect enemy contact, because you can easy drop to the prone position and have the majority of your team return fire immediatly to any dirrection.
the file formation is for moving quickly. If you have contact to the front, the pointman, and who ever is behind him need to return alot of fire quickly. the element leader will make a decesion to move foward and attack, or to retreat. either way you use a bounding movement, leap frogging.
the leader will call for a "peel" (a retreat), who ever is in front will shout "MOVING" the guy behind him will tell him "GO" and he will cease fire if and when the first person crosses his barrel, then resume the cover fire, this repeats untill the team has broken contact. It should be done very fast to avoide being followed. breaking contact for airsoft purposes should take 1-3 minutes. You regroup at a pre determined rally point and move from there.
If your in a flying V, and you take fire. the first V will drop and put down alot of fire. the rear V will flank to the left or right of the 1st V. if there is an advance, they can lay down cover fire from their new position or flank farther up, so they are next to the OPFOR, from there they advance while the 1st V keeps its cover fire. When the 2nd V crosses the barrels of the 1st V, the 1st V will begin their advance foward, and sweep over the area that 2nd V just covered. When they both stop at the LOA Line of Assault. they whould be in a big right angle. From there they will move out.
I hope this helps.
Ill post more, like scroll the road, patroll hand signals, other fun stuff when I have more time.

[Patrick[PM]]

nice guide!
im a fan of the V formation quack! quack! quack!(mighty ducks reference)

[rambo6057]

my team usually breaks up into groups of about 3 to patrol we have one in front watching the front , one in the back to watch the back, and then one in the middle just looking over everything again in case we missed anything...

but im gonna try the v-formation next time

[Gorlock]

good guide, i knew most of it anyway but it's a good refresher.

[Commandant]

Indeed, more of the textbook knowledge. Im sure however any airsofter is green compared to actual military personnel.

[commander 343]

Indeed, more of the textbook knowledge. Im sure however any airsofter is green compared to actual military personnel.

Thats the smartest thing you have said yet! Untill I read you feel like you were mauled by Jesus.

[Sir Diez Alot]

I have a question, here it goes:

My team might be playing another team sometime in the future and i've been looking at some of this guys posts (on another forum) and learning what his tactics are. One of the ones he like to use when patrolling is to make a gaint open V formation, with machine gunners on the 2 ends. The theroy behind it is that they will get the enemy in the middle and the enemy instead of ambushing or whatever will run because they are surrounded. Then the MG guys on the ends will light the reatreating enemy up. here

Now what if the enemy (my team) instead of running or ambushing attacks straight through, right at point guy (who is in the back) thus breaking their V in 2 and making some confusion, and in the confusion scoring some kills on the ohter team. like so

Do you guys think this would work?

[commander 343]

Let me explain a few details of Patrol & Ambush.
 Most organized patrols consist of Point, Main body, and Rear. The Points job is to be up front of the Main body at distance and act as a scout for the Main body and stopping short of danger to alert the Main body or sneaks back to warn them. The Main body is the assualt force if that is what the Patrol Leader wishs do or bypass the threat. If on Recon Patrol the whole team returns to base with this intell. to formulate an attack plan. The Rears job is to provide security to the rear of the patrol and can be used to stop threats advanceing from the front giving the patrol time to seek cover.
Note: They only way to defeat an Amubush is fight your way through the Ambush. If you need to stop and rest for any reason while your patrol is enroute, form a "Tight 360" formation for hasty protection.

Ambush:
The secret to a good ambush is stealth and surprise, by allowing the Point man to pass through you and allowing the main body to be hit from the side reducing your cross fire.
Short coming in this Ambush V formation you have below. 1) MG's are fire support weapons and not intended for forward assaults as you have set up on the blue team and creates deadly cross fire and panic from misdirected fire. 2) MG's should be placed further back in the formation to prevent the main body from breaking through. If your Point man can detect an Ambush set up in time, flank the entire Ambush from the left or right. But not from it's rear. This will confuse their set up but keep in mind serious stealth, noise of movement and communication and surprise is paramount.

Good luck!

[Sgtwiltan]

Some things are also taken for granted which might not be common knowledge. When in line or column formations the individuals are spaced 5 meters apart (killing radius of a grenade) and though in line, is more like a staggered row so that a burst from an MG doesn't take out the whole row without having to spray in a wider arc. That is the textbook way but you'll often see even in real life that it doesn't always seem to be followed depending on the "hotness" of an area being patrolled. In likely combat areas it is even more imperative to follow those rules but sometime enemy lanes of fire prevent that from happenning. That is a lesson for siting weapons in to force the enemy into a more compact group to maximise other weapons firing lanes. The same tactics used by the Russians against German tanks in WW2 is called funneling. This funneling allows you to force your opponent into a position more advantageous to your weapons.

[commander 343]

I totally agree. It is alot easier to demonstrate methods than trying to explain in short posts. Several things differ everywhere, terrain, cover, environment, climate. These things are also overlooked. The text books give an overall idea, but you also have to be able to adapt.

Kudos Sgtwiltan

[shortdog]

thats another good point, but also depending on the area you are in, you need to make that every one in the formation can see the person in front and behind them. To keep coherency, head counts, and so every one knows rally points.
Dies alot:
I wouldn't push through the center of their ambush there, I would pick a side, right or left and push there, that way you are no longer surrounded. if you take out a MG on either side, move to that flank, they are then too spread out to effectivly suppress your team, which gives you the upper hand to retreat or attack their main body.

[Commandant]

No the SMARTEST thing I've said will always be the very last word I've said, because they would be difficult to improve upon. So until the next one, you go ahead and let that soak in.

Regards,

Commandant - Your neighborhood friendly smarta$$.

[Sir Diez Alot]

its friendly neighborehood, not neighborehood friendly

[DRK]

commander 343 trying to punch threw an ambush will get you killed, if you look at insurgent tactics in both countries they follow a Maoist approach on ambushing and ambush retreat, a book i think alot of people should read is "the tactics of the crescent moon" it shows a document history how M.E. insurgents use Maoist tactics that were used since the late 40's and used today as recent as the iraqi and afghan insurgents and before that the chechans and before that the VC. 

punching through a ambush might work if you managed to get through fast enough but the cost will be too  heavy to escape and be hunted down and terminated.

a tactic im trying at my next game is a ambush but retreat, make it seem like your retreating but actually your advancing. like at my next game i know of a terrain area where a firefight is going to happen and there i have two claymore mines placed facing TOWARDS my team and when the enemy comes we all dont attack just enough players drawing their ire to follow in one direction and as they  approach and my team mates run past me as im laying off to the side and setting off the mines with the wireless remote and team mates to the side of that kill zone finish off the remainder enemies.

[Commandant]

There is no syntax for that phrase, as either way it is nonsensical.
Example:
Technically, a neighborhood is an object. It has no soul or personality, so it can not be "friendly". Given that it is made up of people,  the "neighborhood" is focus of the phrase, as it is the noun and "friendly" is the adjective or "modifier".
Secondly, and more simply put: "friendly smarta$$" is an oxymoron, contradicting each other entirely.
Third, it's "it's", not "its". the apostrophe indiates the partial removal of the latter conjoined word. In this case, "it is" becomes "it's". "Its" is possessive, as in "he put in its magazine."
And finally, it's "neighborhood", not "neighborehood".

Edit:

Absorb, goodnight, no offense.

Commandant

Now back on topic.

[commander 343]

DRK the airsoft,
The concept of my statement:
"They only way to defeat an Amubush is fight your way through the Ambush." simply means don't just stand around and be a sitting duck if you are suprised and the subject of an ambush. Seek cover, try to determand where if any heavy fire power, break through the weakest point and either flank the ambush or run like hell. The object of a suprise ambush is to attack the objective as a whole with one suprise attack. But if the objective scatters can not be contained as planned chances are that if they aren't manned and out gunned by superior firepower the objective will survive and can reek havack back to your team.

[DRK]

ok. i wish  i had a team trained in what i know and you have a team trained how you described and we have have team battles.

[commander 343]

Is'nt that what Airsoft is about?

[shortdog]

its hard to have a battle of 2 trained teams. Ive never actually done it.
It sure would be something, and either a hell of a fight, or a real short story.

[Grizz]

Sir diezalot,

I'll offer this advice based on an operation that is trying to be realistic, if your are in an experimental mood, go ahead and try the "punch" to see how it works. If I had all day to play and knew that I was going to get a second chance, I would probably give it a try just to see what would happen. Now if I thought that I would only get one chance, I would definitely go for a more methodical approach.

(I’m not sure if this belongs in the “Tactics” section but I’d still like to address your question.)

I have looked at your diagram and can only say that if your fire team is in the situation represented by the red dots shown in your top diagram, you have already screwed up pretty badly. On the other hand, I think the team represented by the blue dots has also screwed up (I strongly concur w/ commander 343 on that), but that is a different can of worms.

I have to agree with Shortdog and DRK’s advice about not trying the "punch” idea, I would do everything in my power to avoid having my fire team trying to operate in the killing zone of that "pincer" formation, and would definitely not consider trying to punch through. You may (or may not) be surprised at how difficult it is to operate with ANY degree of effectiveness while caught in a heavy crossfire. You would likely find yourself lucky just to make it through, much less take out any enemies along the way.

Here is a simple and basic strategy that I broken down into 3 phases. I will include a fourth in the event that the first 3 are successful, but the situation is very likely to have changed by then. Remember, it is almost always better to adapt your plan to the situation, than to try to adapt the situation to your plan.

My idea is based on three assumptions;

A: This engagement occurs in a wooded area or somewhere with decent natural cover
B: You are certain that these 5 are the only hostiles you will encounter (i.e. no other enemy fire teams playing)
C: Your ambush has failed (because in your diagram you are surrounded, and in a bad formation with regards to your fields of fire) and you have already have (or will momentarily) make contact with the enemy patrol.

In a nutshell, I would try to get my team up and out of the kill zone of that "V" as quickly as possible, then maneuver around to the left or right flank of the enemy formation, catch one of their gunners in a crossfire, and then continue outflanking.

In the following diagrams the Smilies will represent the "V team" (The blue dots), the Xs and Ss represent the ‘ambushees’ (your fire team), these are meant to be a continuation of your first diagram. The Ss represent the members of your team who will keep one eye out on your flank security .

1. Evade: while laying down suppressing fire to cover your flank and rear. Keep as orderly as possible (reverse leap frog etc.). Bring fire to bear on the nearest machine gunner, while maneuvering around his flank.

                X X S
                        X X
                                       
                                
                               

2. Set up a crossfire, eliminate the Machine gunner quickly, continue flanking

           
           S X
          X                            
          X                      
          S                   


3. And then return the favor

         
          S
          X                         
          X                   
          X                 
          S

4. Continue flanking, if applicable

           
                                      
                                
             S             
                 X
                     X
                         X
                            S

A couple of well executed flanking maneuvers like this and your friend will probably end up shelving his high stakes "reverse V" assault formation and start providing himself with some better flank security.

Now hopefully he isn't checking this forum to gather intelligence on your crew.

[commander 343]

KUDO'S Grizz, Shortdog,
Getting out the kill zone as fast as you can is so important. But keep in mind pincher movement needs two seperate elements but can be achieved with a split team.

[DRK]

read that book i told posted earlier. you too short dog, your life may depend on it in your case. or look up maoist infrantry tactics.

[FISTER]

I see a lot of different tactics.  All could work, but some are a little crazy.

The V Formation or Wedge as it’s commonly referred to is what the thread says a patrolling formation.  Not any thing else.  The reason behind the V is security.  The Enemy is expected to be to the front.  But you’re not sure where they may be.  So you bring as much firepower as possible in all directions focusing mainly to the front.  Figuring the enemy is to your front.   That’s it, nothing else.

Now fighting in that formation is not to bright.  If you get hit in either flank you will only have half your firepower in the fight.  So what do you do with the half that is not in the fight?  I would say put them in the fight as quickly as possible.  The guys not in contact need to move and get in some sort of line with they guys in contact.  So you maximize your firepower.  Shotdog was correct on half of the V Formation with another element following in the same type of formation.   Their job is to maneuver to the flank and support or pick up the fight with the enemy to bring maximum firepower to the battle.

Sir Diez Alot, what your friend is doing is called a “Kill Sack” brought to us buy are Soviet Friends.  They lour you in and seal off your escape.  You have two choices.  Don’t get in it, and if you do you need to get out as quickly as possible.  The best way to get out is rush the closest side of the “Sack” that is to you.  You may have to rush a Machine gun but it can be done.

commander 343 You are correct with busting through the Ambush.  Charging the Ambush (used a lot in Vietnam) is also effective if the ambush is not set up right.  You go behind the ambush and turn and burn them from behind.  If you can get a couple of your team members through they will falter at their ambush.

SGTWilton: Proven again, once a Marine always a Marine!

DRK the AirSoft Don, Your described tactics are very defensive.  Initiate then run, to initiate again.  Very costly to you if not done right, or the other team knows what to do or can out flank you.  Then hit you in the Face.  This tactic is used when attacking a force that you are trying to lure into your trap.  Usually used when the attacking does not have the capability to defeat the other force do to any reason.  It requires a great retreat avenue.  But why your fighting another force can maneuver behind you and hit you when your most vulnerable, while you’re moving.

Like all tactics, It takes great understanding of what to do and when to do it.  It requires Rehersals, and planning.  Start out slowly and remember to KISS.  This will make everything easier on you all.

[DRK]

fister read that book i keep talking about the users of the tactics rarely fail since its been around since the late 40's and still works its a maoist/rebel light infrantry tactic while most other countries dont rely as heavily on the use of large quantities of light infrantry.

[FISTER]

Even if I decided to read the book, what could I gain?  My own personal experience with the tactic tells me it just a guerilla tactic.  A Technique that may work, but it can be countered just like everything else.

Anyways who wrote the book? 

Found it.  William Lind.  The book is about Asymmetric warfare.  I’m will not discuss asymmetric warfare on this or any other forum.  This is not the place for politics.  But an airsoft forum is about an action sport/hobby the kinetic fight.  The tactic of falling back then letting the other unit move into there kill sack started in WWI not WWII.  You have to think about how WWI was fought.  “Get out of your trench and charge the next trench.”  “Now that didn’t work, but we’ll do the same thing tomorrow.”  Battles back then were not fought, like they are today. Army’s back then used large masses of troops to push there way forward. Small tactics were limited to Calvary. 

Sure the Ottomans figured out how to maneuver their forces better I’ll give them credit first.  But Saying a Modern Iraqi, Afghani even a Chechen (who are a pretty dangerous force) can beat our militaries own military tactics are totally false.  If your saying that “SHAME ON YOU!”

Anyways William Lind, No real Military experience, just was an advisor to George Taft, the Governor of Ohio on Military affairs.