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Author Topic: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel  (Read 5760 times)

namloot

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Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« on: May 28, 2008, 08:04:35 PM »

I've always used Promtheus 6.03 barrels in my AEGs and have gotten good results with them. Hearing about the benefits of DBC 6.01 tightbores, I was willing to spend the money ($69.92 to be exact) to find out first handed, which barrel is more accurate.

My brand new DBC 6.01 x 455mm AK barrel arrived today.

I have 2 AEGs, a TM M14 and a TM AK47. The AK47 is quite simple to change out the barrel, so it was choosen as the test bed.

I have a nicely broken in Systema bucking with a Big Out H nub in my AK47, so I used it for both tests. I've found Marui .25g BBs to be the most accurate, so I used them for the tests.

First, the chrony results (from a Chrony Alpha).

25 shot average (the AK has a Guarder SP120 spring w/ 12g piston weight):
DBC 6.01 - 385 fps
Promy 6.03 - 390fps

The DBC barrel shot 5 fps slower

I did a preliminary test in my back yard. There is an 8" tree about 90 feet from the back of my house, I shot at it.

With the Prometheus 6.03 barrel, on semi auto, leaning against the door jam in my back door, I can hit the tree, pretty much in the same spot in the middle, every shot. I adjusted the hop up through a range of settings, and could always hit the tree in the middle (except when it was excessive). This is about a 2" maybe 3" grouping at 90 feet.

With the DBC 6.01 barrel, on semi auto, leaning against the door jam in my back door, I couldn't even hit the tree every shot. The grouping was all over the tree, including misses to the left and right; It was inconsistent up and down also. Adjusting the hop up through a range of settings had little effect (except when it was excessive). I spent some time looking for a hop up setting to make the BBs fly straight, no good. I took the barrel out, checked the bucking, hop up, nub etc and reassembled. The second time was exactly the same as the first.

Just for grins, I put a couple of hundred rounds through the 6.01 on full auto, to test for jams. It fired smoothly and did not jam or plunk once.

I had planned on taking it on the field the next time I go, but there is no point doing that.

I've used Systema buckings in Systema, G&P and Marui hop up units. I've used them with G&P, Marui, Madbull and Prometheus barrels. I've used them with standard nubs and with H nubs. Never had a problem. And no, there is nothing wrong with my AEG.

Conclusion a Prometheus 6.03 barrel is night and day better then a DBC 6.01 barrel. I was actually suprised at how poorly the DBC shot. Maybe I got a bad DBC barrel. Maybe they have poor quality control. Maybe they just don't shoot that well. Maybe a different bucking would have worked better. Maybe a meteor will strike the earth and kill us all.

For me and DBC barrels, it's "once bitten, twice shy". It's Prometheus all the way for me and tightbores.

Anyone want to buy a DBC AK barrel cheap?


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jwood966

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 09:09:31 PM »

Good post, but I have a few questions/comments:

1) was the promy barrel brand new as well?  (then you'd have an accurate comparison -- i.e. both barrels broken in or both brand new)

2) did you clean both barrels thoroughly before testing (I know the DB barrels I ordered last year arrived quite full of shop dust and needed a good swabbing before use)

3) heyyy, I think I saw that AK on airsoftnj.com ;)

4) this article (yea, in german) shows that the promy barrel is a bit smoother inside; therefore more consistent aka accurate.

http://www.6millimeter.info/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=42
so...
"tight"bore = free fps!
"just"smoothbore = consistency/accuracy boost!
"ubersmooth&tight"bore = fps and accuracy boost!

[/end chairsoft rant]
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namloot

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 09:38:46 PM »

1) was the promy barrel brand new as well?  (then you'd have an accurate comparison -- i.e. both barrels broken in or both brand new)
The Promy barrel shot well from day one. I tried it on the same tree some months ago, and the groupings were just as good.

2) did you clean both barrels thoroughly before testing (I know the DB barrels I ordered last year arrived quite full of shop dust and needed a good swabbing before use)
Absolutely
Yes, the DB barrel did have a load of crud in it.
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ACdafab04

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 09:59:39 PM »

doesnt DBC barrels require a break in? or is that only for the vsr-10 1s
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CorkBulb

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 10:07:00 PM »

Namloot's test was done well done and quite fair. It completely agrees with the results from the German page (copy the link into google and translate to see). It states that the Promy barrels are much smoother, and the DBC 6.01 is actually a 6.02, and wasn't very smoothe.

doesnt DBC barrels require a break in?

Barrel break-in is a myth.

First of all, the BBs are not supposed to touch the barrel. The BBs are supposed to ride on a cushion of air between the BB and the barrel. If the BBs are touching the barrel, then there is something wrong with the gun's setup. Second, how is a smoothe plastic BB goind down a polished brass barrel going to wear or bend in the metal?
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Booligan

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 10:14:22 PM »

^DB barrels need a break in, myth or not.
I had crap accuracy and FPS all over the place on my M1014 barrel from him, but after about 1000 rounds, it's laser accurate and FPS is steadily higher.

How it does it, I couldn't tell you, but it does, plain and simple.
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CorkBulb

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 10:36:02 PM »

^DB barrels need a break in, myth or not.
I had crap accuracy and FPS all over the place on my M1014 barrel from him, but after about 1000 rounds, it's laser accurate and FPS is steadily higher.

How it does it, I couldn't tell you, but it does, plain and simple.

Was your gun new? did you change the bucking? If so, your bucking broke in, not the barrel. When a bucking breaks in, it gets a groove on the contact point, fitting to the BBs much better, stabalizing velocity and increasing accuracy.
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Booligan

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 10:41:42 PM »

^Nope, gun itself was broken in, and it was the same bucking.

I'm telling you, I've put DB barrels in three of my guns, without changing anything else, and they shot like crap for the first 1000 shots or so, then they settled in and worked great.

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Wallabing

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2008, 10:46:07 PM »

Breaking in the barrel, the belief that shooting bb's down the barrel will help clear it of all the oil and dust settled inside of the hop up bucking and the inner barrel, because your too ******* damn lazy to clean it properly. Of all the tightbores I purchased, even my DB barrel, they never ever had to break in, they shot straight as they are from the very first shot. I dont belive in this barrel break in myth aswell.
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Booligan

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2008, 10:48:57 PM »

^All of my barrels received a thorough cleaning before installation.
I'm not alone in this experience. TCF reports the same thing on his DB barrels too.
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Wallabing

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2008, 10:55:25 PM »

It is possible that the OP's problem stems from the hop up unit. Maybe his hop up nub fell out of correct alignment during his barrel swapping, and nothing but the hop up arm is applying pressure to the bb, causing poor accuracy. This happens very very commonly. Pop off the hop up gear that controls the arm, check properly and install nub back into the notch of the hop up arm, and give it another try.
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namloot

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2008, 05:15:59 AM »

It is possible that the OP's problem stems from the hop up unit. Maybe his hop up nub fell out of correct alignment during his barrel swapping, and nothing but the hop up arm is applying pressure to the bb, causing poor accuracy. This happens very very commonly. Pop off the hop up gear that controls the arm, check properly and install nub back into the notch of the hop up arm, and give it another try.

I took the barrel out, checked the bucking, hop up, nub etc and reassembled. The second time was exactly the same as the first.
Did that already, no change.

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2008, 05:49:07 AM »

Barrel break in is not myth. All smooth-bore barrels including tight bores get better with age.
Imperfections in the honing and polishing process wear down, and disappear over time.

My favorite barrels are old stock Marui PSG1 barrels. After being modified to accept regular aeg hopup's IMO shoot like lasers.

A one second burst of silicone spray, followed by a .22 bore swab after each event will properly clean a barrel. Do not shove the cleaning swab into the hopup.

///ed///
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CorkBulb

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 02:43:43 PM »

Ok, there appears to be some misunderstanding about basic physics and chemistry here.
 
Let's review...

As stated before, The BBs arent' supposed to touch the barrel in the first place, and it is not possible for polished plastic BBs, moving forward at realatively low velocity, down a polished brass barrel, many times harder than the BB, to wear, bend, scratch, polish or break-in the metal barrel.

Also as stated before, buckings break in, and as the more rounds fired through the bucking, the rubber, many times softer than the BBs, wears down into a groove, which better fits the BBs fired, making more consistent backspin and a straighter flight path than a new bucking, which has a rough contact point area. The more rounds fired through the bucking, the more the rubber flattens out to fit the BBs better, making better accuracy.

A good example of this is the story of my KSC USP .45. At first, the gun wasn't outstandingly accurate, about 3-4 inch groupings at 25 feet. After about 1,000 rounds though, my USP was getting noticably more accurate and consistent the more rounds I put through it, now getting a 2 inch grouping at 25 feet, a double accuracy gain. After my plastic slide broke after 4,000 rounds, I installed a metal slide and barrel, and noticed a difinitive track in the bucking's "bump". I figured it had worn down, so I also decided to change the bucking. After my USP was working again, it was much less accurate than before, back to the original 3-4 inch groupings at 25 feet. I figured the new slide and barrel has something to do with it, so I just left it. 1,000 rounds later, it was just as accurate as before, and got even more so as I fired more rounds. I then noticed this "track" in the bucking, and figured that the BBs had worn this out, fitting to the bucking better. Just for grins, and because I love screwing around, I put in my other-spare-new bucking, and again, my accuracy was lost, getting 3-4 inch groupings at 25 feet compared to the 2-inch groupings I got before. I then replaced the old bucking and knocked the bullseye out on the first mag fired after the re-install. So I learned that the broken-in bucking was the difference between 4 and 2 inch groupings. And yes, I used the same gas and BBs then from day 1, the gun was cleaned and lubed well before each test, and the hop-up unit only goes together one way and was in proper working order, and no, I didn't forget to put the ball back in the hop-up unit.

Maybe somebody should put a new bucking in their AEG with their "broken-in" tightbore and do an accuracy comparison.

Case and point, barrels don't break in to make a gun more accurate, buckings do.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 02:49:07 PM by CorkBulb »
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fireteamaqua

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2008, 03:39:19 PM »

Booligan knows what he's talking about, and so does TCF.  If they said the oceans were made of chocolate, then it would be true.
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namloot

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2008, 04:33:12 PM »

Uh huh.

Someone needs to explain how a plastic BB is going to "break in" a metal barrel, especially given the fact the BBs are supposed to ride on a cushion of air and never actually touch the barrel to begin with.
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fireteamaqua

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2008, 04:37:58 PM »

my best guess is that the minor imperfections can be smoothed out.  Also, small amounts of force CAN slowly change the shape of something larger and denser.  One similar example is how water in the sea moving gently over rocks will slowly smoothen them out.  May not be the same thing, but the same concept.
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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2008, 04:57:16 PM »

^ exactly.

Namloot, please report back after putting 1 - 2K rounds through the DBC tightbore.
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namloot

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2008, 06:49:40 PM »

I already wasted $69.92, I'm not going to throw away $14.00 worth of BBs also :)

The DBC barrel had a layer of crud on the inside of it. I'm actually suprised they would ship it without cleaning it first, but no matter. If you did not clean the barrel, and clean it with a petroleum based solvent, shooting a number of BBs would blow the crud out of the barrel over time making it shoot better. IMHO, this is where "break in" comes from.

Water can erode rocks, over thousands of years, yes, but it's not the water doing the eroding, it's the small pieces of sand and dust that do the actual eroding, the water just carries them.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 07:25:27 PM by namloot »
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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2008, 08:48:16 PM »

$14 for 1K bb's? Nah, G&G .2's are like $12.50 for a bag of 5K at ASGI. Comes out to about $2.50 for 1K.
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namloot

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2008, 09:23:00 PM »

I use Marui .25g BBs. I bulk buy them from DenTrinity, they come to about $7- a thousand shipped.

I've used the G&G .25g BBs and they are pretty good. A bag of 4000 is $20 locally, that is $5- a thousand.

The Marui .25s shoot straighter then the G&G ones (actually better then any other .25 I've tried). They are worth the extra money to me.
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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2008, 09:44:14 PM »

I would have to agree with namloot.

I have owned both, both same length, and I defiantly prefer my prometheus barrel.
I have probably put over 1k rounds through my DB customs, and still, the performance is lacking. I might just get a PDI 6.01 which will probably blow it away. 
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Booligan

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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2008, 11:55:26 PM »

I'm not explaining HOW it breaks in the barrel, I'm just sharing my results.

Whether you like it or not, my DB customs barrels improved with age. Not with new bucking, not with other mods to the gun, just changing the barrel, and putting upwards of 1000 rounds through it.

I'm not going to argue against you guys, because you are refusing to listen.

My DB customs got better with age, that is a fact.
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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2008, 12:12:42 AM »

I would go with prometheus because its proven that its A. made of better materials and B. has much smoother consistancy.  Prometheus is also almost exactly 6.03 in diameter while DBC is basically 6.02 (even though they claim to be 6.01).  If I wanted 6.02, I'd get the Deepfire steel 6.02 tightbore barrel.
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Re: Prometheus 6.03 vs DBC 6.01 AK47 Barrel
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2008, 04:36:05 AM »

Quote
As stated before, The BBs arent' supposed to touch the barrel in the first place, and it is not possible for polished plastic BBs, moving forward at realatively low velocity, down a polished brass barrel, many times harder than the BB, to wear, bend, scratch, polish or break-in the metal barrel.

Clean a barrel and look down it.
After a day of shooting, look down it again.
Friction. BB's are capable of continuing the polishing process.

///ed///
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