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[dune titan]

The Purpose of this thread has changed (again). I have what I need, and am working on a working prototype, discuss my ideas if you wish.

Update - I have decided to base this project on my currently broken VSR. After doing much research I have come to the conclusion that a single solenoid valve will not have the opening speed I desire, so instead it will become a pilot valve to a piston valve system. I will spare the details of this system, but if you wish to know more send me a PM. If I am successful (or close to being) I will probably post a new thread w/ designs. The system will be run off regulated co2, in the 88gram cartridge form, which will give me more consistency than 12 gram cartridges. I will possibly play with the idea of having a temperature control system surrounding the cartridge to keep it at a consistent temperature. Now, before you comment on how it would be more economical to simply buy a gas sniper rifle, know this: I have gone beyond the notion of trying to cheaply repair my VSR by converting it to gas, I am now spending my money on what I believe to be an innovation in adapting spud-cannons systems to airsoft form. So, if you have a comment, make sure it's constructive. Thanks ASR!

Everything below this line is old ideas and speculation.

                                                                                                                                   


Imagine a normal Aeg. Take out the gearbox, motor, and wires. Leave the body and other externals, selector switch, barrel and hop-up unit.

Alternatively you could imagine a bolt-action rifle. Take out the triggermech, internals of the bolt and cylinder head. Leave the body and other externals, selector switch, barrel and hop-up.

Now a new system in the left-over parts:

You have a gas reservoir connected to a gas regulator.

The regulator is connected to an electronic valve.

The valve is connected to a feeding nozzle.

A motor moves the feeding nozzle in and out of the hop-up unit when appropriate.

All the electronic components are connected to a circuit.

The circuit includes a trigger (touch sensor), selector switch (rotation sensor), a battery, the feeding-nozzle motor and the main valve.

When the circuit is completed by the trigger being pulled, the main gas valve is opened for x amount of time, then closed. Then, the motor connected the feeding nozzle cycles to allow another round to enter the hop-up chamber.

The position of the selector switch (rotation sensor) dictates the amount of cycles allowed if any at all.  

My question - Where and what valve is appropriate to performs the task? It would have to be able to open and close at a rapid rate, and if that was not the case than possible another valve that only opened when the pressure was high enough could be incorporated into the system. Also, what kind of setup could I use for the feeding nozzle?

What is not my question - What circuits I need - I have experience with normal electronics and minor programming to understand what I need, besides what's mentioned above.

The reason I would like to pursue a system of this type is because of the control the user would have over the rate of fire and velocity of the gun, allowing quick transition between cqb to other setups and visa versa. I would also be a simple, low-part and low-upkeep system.

Thanks for help, ideas and suggestions.

~Dune

[kerwinator]

why not get a GBB rifle and just tweak the internals for a more consistent rifle?

[dune titan]

why not get a GBB rifle and just tweak the internals for a more consistent rifle?

A couple reason - I'm not a fan of Gbb's low capacity mags, the amount of moving parts, the price, and the limited ability to change the fps and rof.

Bottom line - I'm looking to create a simple system controlled by electronics rather than mechanical latches and levers.

There ain't any EMP's in airsoft 

[9Battousai]

You'll spend a lot more money trying to get a gun to do all that, as opposed to actually having two or three guns in the first place.

You want to change ROF? mount a rheostat (also known as a variable resistor or potentiometer). Simple solution.

In reality, you've got a couple of options that will prove to be significantly easier than the others.

MadBull (I think) made a gas powered gearbox, which would be capable of both FPS and ROF change.

Secondly, ICS guns that came with a v2 gearbox have a split design, allowing you to swap springs (and by doing so changing your ROF) within a couple of minutes.





I'm not sure what exactly it is you're looking for, but 'simple' isn't going to be there when you find it.

[dune titan]

Okay I'll zero in on what I need from you guys, just ignore the rest if I'm gonna get .gifs with that guys face on them 

My question - Where and what valve is appropriate to performs the task? It would have to be able to open and close at a rapid rate?

What is not my question - What circuits I need - I have experience with normal electronics and minor programming to understand what I need, besides what's mentioned above.

Everything besides an answer or suggestion to this question, don't answer at all. Thanks for your suggestions so far.

Bat - Thanks for the alternatives. I know about all of those. I'm looking for something electronically controlled. Yes, I know about the new smart mosfet's these days too, no need to inform me about those. I do need a little more feedback from you though, you said:

I'm not sure what exactly it is you're looking for, but 'simple' isn't going to be there when you find it.

What could I do to make others understand? Do I need a diagram? (I am absolutely not joking and not insulting you)

Thanks,

~Dune

[9Battousai]

pretty much a solenoid that can handle ~100psi or so would do the trick.

Forgive me if I sound a little jaded, it seems that every other week, we get a new guy asking about how to make his own gas gun from paintball parts or similar. It's just a little irritating to see the same questions pop up over and over again.


EDIT: Here's an example that might work for you

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4KB45?Pid=search

EDIT2: Well, here's the rest of 'em at Grainger, anyway.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=air+solenoid&op=search&Ntt=air+solenoid&N=0&sst=subset

[dune titan]

Batt - Thank you, I was figuring something along those lines would work.

I'm figuring that 'any solenoid' won't be able to switch open and closed very rapidly. So, I'm thinking of having two in succession: The first starts open and the second is closed. The second opens, a timer is set, and when it expires the first closes. Then the second opens, resetting the system. The second cycle would be similar, except reversed. Uh uh, is that programming I see getting more difficult as I speak? Better stop then   

And I'm sorry for asking a similar question again, I do to see the other threads you speak of. I guess the only thing that separates me from the rest is that I already have a relatively clear idea of what I want to do and how to do it, the problem is is that I'm honestly clueless when it comes to electronic valves.

Peace

~Dune

[9Battousai]

As far as the ones I've used, they open and close pretty rapidly. With a decent regulator, you should be just fine with a single solenoid. I haven't clocked them or anything, but based on some VERY loose testing, I wouldn't be surprised if you saw 15+rps.

[dune titan]

Okay, well I'll have to try it out with a single one, as I will be a good deal simpler.

If too much strain is being put on it to obtain reasonable cycle rate, I'm think about incorporating another into the system.

In the end I plan to have the entire system gearbox-shell compatible. A gearbox shell already has a slot for the trigger and selector switch, and a nozzle compatibility with the hop-up unit. Plus, the body is shaped around it.

In fact, I could leave everything in the gearbox but the piston, spring and spring guide. I could modify the wiring to incorporate a timer for the valve, and have the original motor deal with the nozzle cycling. Of course then I'd need an active breaking system because of the zero-load on the motor...

Hmmm, well let's not turn this into a chatting thread, I'll return with results!

Edit - Batt, Those valves are looking good, tomorrow I will look more into it, thanks for the start!

Edit - 100 posts! Yay... No wait, I'm still a noob. Darn, they lied. I thought post count was everything...  

[BigEd]

More intel for you.

http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/spool-valves-t20419.html

A blow forward nozzle design would be easier than an electrical one. I use a QEV which is chambered with a relief valve. When the relief exhausts, the QEV opens and dumps the chamber air down the barrel. You can adjust some relief valves to open at a desired pressure, or just regulate the air pressure to fill the chamber slowly. The greater the pressure the quicker the valve will open. The chamber volume needs to be the size of the barrel.

A video of how it works. (Not Mine, but you will get the point.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooiZzIqzPy4

The final problem, is air source. Using CO2 and a rapidly opening valve, the valve would cool down and ice open. HPA would be best for rapid firing and solenoid valves.

///ed///

[Mr. Blue]

You don't need to use electronically controlled components to achieve what you are looking for...

Wait 2 months or so and you'll see a preview similar to the Asahi WA2000 Engine done with no electronic components...

V2 GB, Aeg hop-up/Magazine compatible, Fits m16/g3 and slight mod to work in V3 (aug/ak)

BigEd, my design isn't a blow forward design, but i agree, blow forward spool valves are much easier to make/work on. Happened to stick one ( from an stti vz61 ) into a old LPEG back in the day, thing fired faster than magazines could load.

[dune titan]

Big Ed - While a blow forward nozzle would reduce the amount of parts I have to worry about in a timer circuit, it would limit the range of psi I could pump through the system. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Thank you for the link, it is very informative.

Mr. Blue - Thank you for the information, I was not aware of this new clone. However, I am leaning in the direction of electrical over mechanical control simply because I will have more control of the main variables - fps and rof. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

My ideas right now: Take an Aeg gearbox, take out the piston, spring and spring guide. Wire the trigger contacts to the timer circuit. When the trigger is pulled, the Solenoid valve opens and closes (it has a solid connect to the cylinder head), and then the motor turns on to engages the gears, which cycles the tappet plate thus the air nozzle. Active breaking built into the circuit with stop the motor when needed. Selective fire control has not been dreamed up yet. The whole idea of this system is based on the fact that I won't have to rebuilt everything: I can base it on an already existent gearbox.  

~Dune


Update - I have decided to base this project on my currently broken VSR. After doing much research I have come to the conclusion that a single solenoid valve will not have the opening speed I desire, so instead it will become a pilot valve to a piston valve system. I will spare the details of this system, but if you wish to know more send me a PM. If I am successful (or close to being) I will probably post a new thread w/ designs. The system will be run off regulated co2, in the 88gram cartridge form, which will give me more consistency than 12 gram cartridges. I will possibly play with the idea of having a temperature control system surrounding the cartridge to keep it at a consistent temperature. Now, before you comment on how it would be more economical to simply buy a gas sniper rifle, know this: I have gone beyond the notion of trying to cheaply repair my VSR by converting it to gas, I am now spending my money on what I believe to be an innovation in adapting spud-cannons systems to airsoft form. So, if you have a comment, make sure it's constructive. Thanks ASR!